As happens when any particular spirit booms, the US saw a barrage of sourced whiskey come onto the market when the interest in Bourbon began to peak. But one brand, Old Elk, decided to turn sourcing on its head.
They went, as a lot of sourced Bourbon brands had before them, to the massive Lawrenceberg, Indiana distillery, MGP but rather than just accept a little bit of tweaking on the liquid, they engaged Master Distiller Greg Metze to create a whole new mash bill.
That collaboration would not only see a unique spirit produced but also ended up with Metze taking the reins as the brand’s master distiller.
We talk to the man who has really been at the helm of old elk since its inception about smooth Bourbon, malted barley, and the legacy that comes from Infinity.
For more information, go to oldelk.com
Tiff Christie (00:41):
As happens when any particular spirit booms, the US saw a barrage of sourced whiskeys come onto the market when the interest in bourbon began to peak, but one brand old Elk decided to turn sourcing on its head. They went as a lot of sourced bourbon brands had done before them to the massive Lawrenceburg, Indiana Distillery MGP. But rather than just accept a little bit of tweaking on the liquid, they engaged Master distiller Greg Metz to create a whole new mash bill. This collaboration would not only see a unique spirit produced, but also ended up with Mets taking the reins as the brand's master distiller. We talked to the man who created the liquid about Smooth Bourbon malted Bali, and the legacy that comes from Infinity. Thank you for taking the time to speak with us, Greg.
Greg Metze (01:42):
My goodness, my pleasure. Thanks for inviting me along.
Tiff Christie (01:45):
Now, it's unusual for a bourbon to be sourced by the guy who made it as well.
Greg Metze (01:52):
Uh, yeah, it was, uh, uh, actually, what makes the whole
Tiff Christie (02:24):
Oh, really? Yeah. That surprises me. Yeah.
Greg Metze (02:27):
So, uh, so yeah, they, uh, uh, asked me to do that. And as I got to know the company over the next four years as I was, uh, developing those mash bills and then producing 'em for 'em, and it became apparent to me that, uh, that Old Elk brand was really on the ground floor or something special, you know, when they invited me, uh, to join him full time, uh, in 2017, uh, for me it was a no brainer is, and again, over that four year period, uh, when I was doing that work for 'em on a contract basis, uh, you know, I got to know the people and, and got to know the company. And, and really the company is, is built around, uh, young, smart, passionate people. Literally, I'm the old goat in the crowd. And, uh, you know, just, uh, people that, uh, were on the ground floor of getting ready to build a brand from the ground up. And when they gave, uh, gave me the opportunity to, to join and to do that, it was like, wow. Heck yeah. I, I'm all in.
Tiff Christie (03:33):
Now. In 34 years of distilling, though, you must have seen the liquid of a lot of brands. I am surprised though, that they none had asked you to create mash bills before now.
Greg Metze (03:45):
Well, we, uh, you know, for the first 24 years of my, uh, career, I was under the secret umbrella. So, uh, during that period, uh, we were only producing everything we produced outta Lawrenceburg. Under that, under that 24 year period was, uh, all specific, uh, products for Seagram brands. We weren't doing any contract distilling, uh, whatsoever. Uh, right. In 2002, that actually, uh, all changed. Seagram's got out of the business entirely, uh, sold all their brands to print over car and Diagio. And, uh, really at that point is when the distillery started becoming, uh, a contract distiller. Hmm. Uh, by 2008, uh, we had become a hundred percent contract distillers. Uh, Pernow operated the facility for about seven years, uh, after they acquired, uh, you know, part of the seed brands. But in 2008, they sold the distillery, uh, to a rich gentleman from Trinidad, uh, when we became ldi Lawrenceburg Distillers Indiana. And at that point, uh, we were 100% contract distillers. And, uh, right MGP wound up, uh, taking ownership of the facility about 2012 and, uh, continued to operate primarily as a, uh, hundred percent contract distiller. Mm. Some of that was, uh, really an evolution over the 40 or over the 38 years that I spent there from Right. You know, producing all for one specific brand, uh, to producing for, uh, many, many, many brands. So, yeah.
Tiff Christie (05:25):
Now I believe that when Old Elk approached you, they gave you two words to work from.
Greg Metze (05:33):
Yeah, they did. Uh, uh, when they came to the plant, our owners, Kurt and Nancy Richardson, were interested in getting into the bourbon business. Uh, Kurt, Nancy, I don't know if you know where the founders of Modern Box phone covers. Kurt and Nancy, both are very entrepreneurial people and, uh, like to build businesses from the ground up and back in 2012, they, they decided they the Bourbon business, and, uh, the first thing they did was look me up and, uh, came to the plant and asked me to, to, uh, craft custom mash bill for 'em and then produce for 'em. And as we said earlier, that was, that was a first for me. I, I, my fingerprints are on many, many brands on the shelves. Uh, but they were all staple Seagram mash bills that we had produced over my whole career at that, at that distillery.
And it just so happened that they were all, you know, world class quality whiskey. But Old Elk was the first, uh, they asked me to, uh, craft their Old Elk bourbon was the first, uh, mash bill that they asked me to produce. And it was a really long meeting. They said, uh, Greg, we want the product to be smooth and easy. And, and that was it. That, that was the end of the meeting. So, again, so I, uh, you know, really from that point on, I leveraged my experience, uh, you know, to get smooth and easy. I, I knew I had to get the multi barley content way up in the mash bill in the back of my mind. Uh, I also knew that all of the mash bills that I produced in my career up to that point always had some degree of rying it for a nice spice characteristic.
And, uh, again, through, through experience, I knew that it takes a minimum of 15% rye in the mash bill to get that characteristic follow through into the distillate. So Right. Really at that point, it became, uh, reverse math. Uh, I took the corn content down to the minimum, uh, for a bourbon, which is 51% factored in the 15% rye to get that nice spice characteristic that I wanted. Right. Uh, and that left me room for 34% multi barley. So, uh, you know, if I could have squeezed more multi barley in in that mash bill, I probably would've, but right as it is, it, it turned out to be a, uh, an incredibly good mash bill. But the white distillate, uh, came off the stills, uh, extremely clean, no, no quality defects whatsoever. And, uh, you know, although at that time I couldn't predict what the descriptors were gonna be when it came out of the barrel, I knew that world class quality going into the barrels gonna come out, uh, and even better world class quality, uh, product when it comes outta the barrel.
So, so yeah, that, uh, that's how we started. I produced probably eight or 9,000 barrels of that product for Old Elk. And, uh, when we finished that part of the project, uh, they actually came back to the plant and we had further discussions on, on, on what I thought would be the next growing categories, uh, six or seven years down the road, which is really pretty much where we're at today. And, uh, you know, at that, at that time, six, seven years ago, uh, rye whiskey was gaining traction like crazy, really in no, no small part. The, the 95% Ry Asheville that we made famous down there in Lawrenceburg. But, uh, you know, then, uh, back then wheat and wheat bourbons were, uh, largely untapped. There's obviously some nice players in, in those arenas back then, but, uh, not very many. So, you know, I told him I thought we should craft a, a wheat bourbon mash bill and a wheat whiskey mash bill.
Uh, but I told him I thought we should go extreme, uh, which we did. You know, one of the things about Old Elk's DNA is really just two simple things. Uh, you know, they want, first and foremost, they want world class quality products. So anything with old Elk's name on it, at least the products I made, I can assure you are world class quality products. There, there are no quality defects in there. And the second part is that the old l uh, always wants to be different than everybody else on the shelf. And, and one of the ways we do that is, is through these custom ashe builts. So when we decided to go, uh, large into the wheat bourbon and the wheat whiskey categories, uh, I crafted a, a wheat bourbon that's 51% corn, 45% wheat, and 4% malt. That's about as much wheat as I could get in there. Right. And still call it a bourbon and still have enough malt to convert it. Yeah. And then we took the same approach really to the, to the wheat whiskey. Uh, that mash builds 95% wheat and 5% malt, so it's, uh, entirely different than any other wheat bourbon or any other wheat whiskey on the shelves. And so I can't guarantee you'll necessarily like those mash builds, but I can absolutely tell you that the quality's there and were different than everybody else.
Tiff Christie (10:48):
It must have been quite exciting to be in a situation where you could create those.
Greg Metze (10:54):
Oh, absolutely. Uh, yeah, it's, it was literally like a kid in the candy store. Uh, and, you know, my experience was absolutely a, a key ingredient to all that. Uh, you know, I got the best training in the world under the secret umbrella on how to make world class quality products. But, uh, having the opportunity to craft something brand new that really nobody else has ever done, and then, uh, you know, have the opportunity to, to see what it looks like when it's coming out of the barrel, and then furthermore, being part of, or becoming part of the brand, uh, and helping them launch their brands from the ground up has just been, uh, an incredible journey.
Tiff Christie (11:43):
So even, even though you've distilled countless number of bourbons, old Elk would pretty much be your legacy then?
Greg Metze (11:52):
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. That, that I, I want it to be the crowning achievement to my, my whole career. I'm, uh, 40, 45 years in at this point. And, uh, I would like to think I've got a few years left to, uh, get the brand, uh, to the point that we want it to be at, and, and, uh, and I can turn the helm over to the younger generation. So yeah, that's, that's the plan. And I do, I absolutely want it to be the crowning achievement in my entire career.
Tiff Christie (12:26):
Now, the brand talks about elevating the bourbon landscape in this day and age. How difficult is that to do?
Greg Metze (12:36):
Well, I think, you know, given the history of this business, I think it can be very difficult. But with having said that, I, I think, I think it's been easy for Old Elk, and I think it's been easy because of the, uh, because the two concepts that that old Elks, uh, built on that I mentioned earlier, uh, you know, bringing the best quality product to the table that you can possibly bring, and then being different than everybody else. So, you know, that's, that's, that really defines, uh, old Elk brands. And because we're so different and because the quality is there, I think it has made, uh, or has given us the ability to, you know, really change a landscape, uh, somewhat. And, and even to go a step farther, because, because our match bills are so different than everybody else on the shelf, uh, through our blending programs that we initiated, uh, last year, a little bit before last year, uh, I've actually been able to create mash bills within mash bills, if you will. Oh, wow. By, by blending them. So we, yeah, we've, we've got, have had the, uh, further latitude of being able to do that. And it all started with being so different than everybody else.
Tiff Christie (14:01):
Talk to us about the brand's slow cut proofing process.
Greg Metze (14:12):
Okay. So that, uh, really, that is a, uh, what I'll say is, is an added polishing step that really, uh, adds to the balance and the integrity of our products. And, uh, we did not invent that, uh, program. We actually, uh, learned about it from a gal named Nancy Fraley, who is a big, big name in the business. But, uh, what it is, is that, uh, when you add water, or when you reduce, uh, your product from barrel proof to bottling proof, you're, you're actually going from a higher energy level state to a lower energy level state, chemically mm-hmm.
And what that does is, uh, you know, most folks in the industry, maybe, if not all, uh, actually it'll do that reduction in maybe one or two steps. So, uh, the amount of water that it takes to go from barrel proof to whatever the bottling proof is, the amount of water will be the same regardless of what method you use. But by doing it in multiple steps rather than one or two big ones, you limit the amount of heat that gets put into your product in, in every given step. So, so you're not, and if you do it all in once, like, you know, most folks do, uh, all that heat's going at once, uh, the temperature rise, uh, in your product is gonna be higher than if you do it in multiple, multiple steps like we do. And, and what that does is, uh, when you put that heat in all at once, it actually, uh, has a, uh, it'll actually boil off some of the really, uh, low temperature, uh, boiling point congeners that you work so hard to develop. And by doing, by doing multiple steps and putting in less heat with each step over longer periods of time, you're actually able to, uh, preserve some of those, uh, right. Uh, really nice delicate and, and it just enhances, uh, the balance and the integrity of your product. I, I call it a polishing step. It's, it's just an extra step that, uh, adds to the experience, if you will.
Tiff Christie (16:46):
You think if it does preserve them, that more people would be taking it on?
Greg Metze (16:51):
Well, they would, but it's a very expensive step. Uh, and, uh, you know, we're at a level that, uh, we, we have the ability to do it, and we've chosen to do that, but, uh, it takes probably, uh, well, it depends on, on what the barrel proof is and, and how far you're cutting it. So, you know, if we're doing a 105 proof product that the s the process may take five days. If we're going down to 88 proof, it may take seven or 10 days. So the, the length of time it takes to do that slow cut process is variable based on what the bottling proof of your product's gonna be, but Right. In any case, it, it takes extra blending tanks, uh, to be able to do that. And it takes, you know, a lot of extra time to be able to do that. So those are both, uh, more expensive steps, if you will. Uh, we've chosen to do that, uh, so that the integrity of our product is, is, I wanna say, better than, uh, anybody else on the shelf. And, uh, we don't really pass that cost along. So it's, it's just things that we do that, that makes Old Elk so unique to the industry, you know, elevating the landscape.
Tiff Christie (18:06):
Now, from what I hear, you have a particular passion for smooth bourbons.
Greg Metze (18:11):
Tiff Christie (18:11):
Is that why Old Elk approached you, do you think?
Greg Metze (18:16):
I think there's two things that, to me, when, when, uh, you know, when I refer to a product, uh, that's being smooth to me, that, that, that tells me some smooth is, is is highly related to high quality. Right. I'm sure you've had harsh whiskeys before. Yeah. And harsh whiskeys are, you know, in my training are, are generally deemed as the having some type of quality defect, cuz it's not, it just doesn't have the balance integrity and, and the, the right, uh, the right concentration of all the congeners to make the qual to make the product quality smooth. So throughout my career, pardon me, smooth, uh, was always indicative of high quality. Now Kurt and Nancy Richardson, who were new to the business, uh, were, were, we're after a bourbon, it was entirely different than everybody else is on the shelf. And, and, and they choose the characteristics of smooth and easy to fit the product that they were after. So yeah, that's kind of how that evolved.
Tiff Christie (19:28):
Now the brands has just released the second annual of your infinity blend series. How important is bringing new flavours to the table when it comes to releasing a bourbon?
Greg Metze (19:43):
Well, for me, I'm really more interested in just bringing something that's incredibly unique to the table. So when I sit down and, and do these master series blends or infinity blends that we've, uh, started doing over the last year, uh, I'm not really trying to fit a particular flavor profile. Right. And one of the, one of the things that, that, that all blenders have to deal with, and it's a very first step, is that you have to decide, you know, what's in your inventory relative to blending components. Uh, so, you know, if, if you wanna blend something, you pretty much have to have it in your inventory to put it together. So that's the first step. But then, uh, you know, we're always trying to, you know, just create mash bills within mash bills, if you will, as I mentioned earlier. Right. Uh, and, and with the Infinity blend, uh, the very first one, 2021, uh, that blend was built around legacy and Heritage.
Uh, it was built around, uh, my 44 years in the business at that time that the heritage part was really built around Old Elk, Colorado whiskey, uh, and, and also some really nice, uh, vintage, uh, Kentucky whiskeys that we had in inventory from two different, uh, distilleries in Kentucky. Uh, so that was the first blend, right? And then 2022 Infinity Blend, as you said, just came out and Infinity Blend, uh, implies, you know, a perpetual blend. That's, that's the whole concept. And, and so really, uh, uh, the 2022, uh, the starting point with that blend was to, to incorporate, uh, a portion of 2021 Blend that we held back. Yeah. And as, as it turned out, that wound up being 18% of the 2022 blend. Right. And then, uh, you know, then we wanted it, the 2022, uh, all the Old Elk Master Series blends, first and foremost always want to be primarily built around, uh, our Old Elk custom as Bill.
So, okay. This year we wanted to incorporate, uh, seven and a half year old old Elk bourbon that we had an inventory as well as, uh, 7.6 year old, old out wheat whiskey that we had in inventory. And that, that became the next two primary components. Right. And as it was, I still had some of that really nice, uh, vintage, uh, Kentucky whiskey leftover that, uh, I went ahead and incorporated, uh, what we had left of that inventory into this blend. So, right. Uh, again, it winds up being a, uh, I don't know if you know the ratios of the blend, but it wound up being, uh, 15%, uh, seven and a half year old, old Elk Bourbon, uh, wound up being 18% of 2021 Infiniti Blend. Right. Uh, well, and then 52%, uh, 7.6 year old pulled up wee whiskey. Okay. And it turned out, uh, in my opinion, remarkably well, it's, it's just a, uh, another really pleasant blend that you can sit down and enjoy, uh, any day of the week or any way you want to drink it actually.
Tiff Christie (23:12):
Which do you prefer creating blends or creating mash bills?
Greg Metze (23:18):
Uh, I think I enjoy both of 'em equally actually. Uh, the, the, the blood,
Tiff Christie (23:23):
Are they, are they similar? I mean, do you approach them in a very similar manner or?
Greg Metze (23:28):
I would say in some ways, yes. Uh, you know, when, when it comes to trying to create something different, something unique that other folks maybe haven't seen before or haven't tried before, the beauty of the blending part is you don't have to wait four to six years to, to try it out. So yeah, of course, the blend, the blending part's been, uh, incredibly fun and gratifying from that standpoint that because we have our inventory ages are in the really, at this point, they're in the six to probably 10 year old categories now. Yeah. Uh, gives, gives us, uh, tremendous latitude to really, uh, tinker and build some really cool stuff with it.
Tiff Christie (24:14):
If people are approaching the Infinity 2022 for the first time, what do you want them to take away from the expression?
Greg Metze (24:26):
Uh, I think, uh, uh, tremendous, uh, pleasure and tremendous, uh, enjoyment. Again, it's, it's, uh, a really super high quality blend. It's, it's, uh, it incorporates some really terrific, uh, different types of asbi. And I think, uh, I, I think anybody that, uh, sits down and tries, it'll be thrilled with the experience that they get, uh, when they get the sip on it, or, you know, if they choose to put it in a cocktail, that's fine too. I've, I've always told people, uh, that they should enjoy their whiskey, uh, however they like it. Uh, I'm not a proponent of some of these reviewers that try to tell you, you know, what you should smell what you should taste and, and how you should drink it. I think it's very much like food. You, you drink it or eat it the way you like it. And, uh, I'm good with all that.
Tiff Christie (25:24):
I imagine the smoothness of the Infinity, though, does lend itself quite well to cocktails.
Greg Metze (25:31):
Oh, I'd say absolutely. Uh, actually, uh, we've got a, uh, um, Linda Maddox, who's our, our head production person, uh, out in Fort Collins, that actually puts all these blends together. I mean, I cra I craft them and send a formulas out, but she's, she's doing all the actual leg work on them, uh, is also a, a, an incredibly accomplished mixologist. So, uh, when it comes to creating cocktails with our, with our products, uh, she is always at the forefront of doing all that. If you get on our websites or if pe know if folks are interested, there's, there's always, uh, cocktail recipes on, you know, what you can put together with our products that, uh, really marry up quite well. And, you know, she's, she's the pioneer of all that. So
Tiff Christie (26:23):
If somebody's going to put Infinity into a cocktail, what sort of flavours and aromas would they be getting from the spirit itself?
Greg Metze (26:33):
Oh, well, I, that's, uh, again, uh, pallets are like fingerprints. Uh, everybody has 'em and everybody's are different. But, uh, I I, I'll give you my perspective on it. I mean, I get, uh, certainly get all the classic vanilla and oak, uh, characteristics. I think the, uh, I think the wheat brings, uh, some floral notes. Uh, I think it brings, uh, maybe some fruity notes, right. I think the high multi Barbo brings some notes of, uh, maple and maybe a little bit almond. So I think there's a lot going on with the infin, with the Infinity blend. And then of course, you know, you got the, uh, 12 year old and 13 year old Kentucky bourbons in there that, uh, bring neuro own really nice, uh, profiles to the table. So there's a lot going on in there for sure.
Tiff Christie (27:25):
So I imagine a good whiskey sour or even a maple leaf, which is made with, uh, maple syrup would work really well with this particular expression.
Greg Metze (27:37):
Yeah. I, I would, uh, certainly recommend giving it a go.
Tiff Christie (27:43):
I believe that Old Elk is available in all 50 states.
Greg Metze (27:49):
It is. Uh, we, uh, we've only been in market, uh, actually five years this past November. So we started out in, what, 2017? We were, uh, launched in November and we were in, uh, Colorado and California. And then by 2019, we were distributed in all 50 states. Uh, we have a national alliance with, uh, Southern glaciers. Uh, they, I think they represent, uh, 44 of the 50 states, and then the, the remaining six or, uh, you know, independence or whatever that, uh, cover the states at the Southern, uh, doesn't have a footprint in. So, yeah, absolutely. Uh, in all 50 states now, our, our, you know, our next big task is to build, you know, points of distribution in all those states, which is what we've been working hard on, uh, really for the past two, two and a half years since we established a footprint. Now we used to grow that footprint.
Tiff Christie (28:50):
Will you be looking to export outside of the US at any point, or
Greg Metze (28:55):
No? I think certainly, uh, you know, I don't know what the timeline for that is. Uh, I think right now we'd like to see our footprints get bigger in each state within, uh, our own 50. And, uh, you know, I think on premise, a footprint, I think, uh, is always work in pro progress too. So, but yeah, certainly wouldn't rule anything out like that. Uh, we, yeah, we would certainly like to get international, but, uh, I think we've got more work to do here in the States. Before we get to that point,
Tiff Christie (29:27):
What should people expect for the future from Old Elk?
Greg Metze (29:33):
I would say, uh, more, more fun stuff.
Tiff Christie (29:38):
Uh, you didn't give us any hints.
Greg Metze (29:39):
We, we, we, uh, well, I will say that, uh, hitting the shelf soon, if it's not already on the shelf in some spots, uh, we have a, uh, cast finished a rum, cast finished rye whiskey. That's, uh, okay. That's should be coming out any day if it's not already out in some spot. So if you really want something fun and delicious, uh, absolutely try to get your hands on that. Again, those are, uh, um, limited release, uh, products that we put out. Mm. Uh, and we're always, uh, we're always looking to do something new in those arenas. Of course, you know, next year there'll be another infinity blend, uh, likely to be, actually, I know there's gonna be a, another Master series blend because I just finished it this weekend. Right. So look, I look forward to that probably, uh, early 2023. So it'll be, uh, the third Master series plan.
Tiff Christie (30:46):
Greg Metze (30:47):
I have it blended up. I actually had intended on, on doing my evaluations on it yesterday. I woke up with a head cold, so I, I have to, I have to delay the best part, uh, for a couple days to actually get in there and see which one I like the best. Oh, it's, uh, I'm looking forward to it. No, no doubt.
Tiff Christie (31:10):
What has the consumer reaction to Old Elk been?
Greg Metze (31:17):
Well, I, I think, uh, I think it's been fantastic. I mean, uh, you know, I've, uh, I guess I've had the good fortune of, of, of stepping into old Elk brands from the ground floor. And, and we've been, we again, we launched our brand, uh, five years ago. From, we've come a long ways quickly in, in, you know, my experience through, uh, all the shows and the events that we do is, is two years ago, everybody came to our booth and said, well, you know, who are you? And you know, what's your story? And, and then three years later, people are coming to our booth looking forward to what we're gonna, what we're gonna have next. So, uh, and and the really cool part of that is that our audience in, I think across the board, the bourbon audience is, is incredibly, uh, well educated, uh, on brands and whiskeys and Yeah. And, and whatnot. And it, and it's, it's really gratifying when you get folks with that passion and that knowledge, uh, step up and start backing your brand, uh, that, that's probably the best endorsement you can get. Mm. And, uh, you know, we're, we're getting that every day and more and more of it every day. So the brand is real. We, we, we are coming of age. Absolutely.
Tiff Christie (32:46):
Knowing that there are so many people with such a strong knowledge and a strong passion for bourbon out there, does that put an enormous amount of pressure on you guys as to what you produce?
Greg Metze (33:02):
I don't think anybody in our company feels pressure. I, I think the people that feel pressure are our competitors, quite frankly.
Tiff Christie (33:10):
Out of all the expressions that you've created with Old Elk so far, which would you say would be your favourite?
Greg Metze (33:21):
All of them
Tiff Christie (33:23):
Greg Metze (33:28):
Uh, boy, that's, that's
Tiff Christie (33:30):
What of your children do you love more
Greg Metze (33:32):
Picking your favorite child? Well, when you put it that way, yes. I'm gonna have to say it's my first child, then, uh, it's gonna be the Old Elk Bourbon. That was, that was the first mash bill, uh, in my career that I got to build from the ground up. And, uh, so yeah, I'll put, I'll, I'll put that as my favorite.
Tiff Christie (33:54):
Now, if people would like more information on the brand, they can of course go to the website, which is old elk.com or connect with the brand on its socials.
Greg Metze (34:08):
Absolutely. Yeah. Uh, we're, uh, represented well in, in all those categories. So, uh, I, I think our website is, uh, first class there. All the information that you would probably need can be found on that website. Uh, one of the things about Old Elk is we're incredibly transparent, you know, and if, uh, if you can't find something on the website, you can certainly reach out, uh, through the website, uh, to get what answers may not be, uh, given on the website for that matter. I mean, they could, they could reach out to me. So we're always happy to engage with the consumer and our customers and, uh, give them whatever they need when we can.
Tiff Christie (34:54):
All right, Greg, well look, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us today.
Greg Metze (34:58):
Absolutely. I enjoyed it.
Tiff Christie (35:00):