Interviewer
As spring descends in the Northern hemisphere, it's the perfect time to pay tribute to the efforts of the humble bee. Darting through fields, to acquire pollen and nectar bees are symbols of renewal and community. Within the spirit world, their efforts and enterprise are no better represented than by the Vermont distillery Barr Hill, in the form of their floral, raw honey gin. We talked to Ryan Christiansen Head Distiller at Caledonia spirits, the makers of Barr Hill Gin about bees, honey cocktails and why gin is your perfect spring drink.
Thanks for joining us, Ryan.

Ryan
Thanks for having me. It's great to be here.

Interviewer
With honey so much the focus of your gin, this must be your favourite time of year.

Ryan
Absolutely, for sure. I mean, I'm actually looking out the window right now. It's snow still coming down here in Vermont, but, uh, it it's undoubtedly the start of gin season and you know, the maple season just came to an end and flowers are just starting to bloom. So yeah, beginning of gin season, we're looking forward to it.

Interviewer
Now tell us how did a beekeeper and a distiller end up joining forces?

Ryan
Sure. So Todd Hardy is a lifelong beekeeper. You know, he's a farmer, just a true lover of agriculture and just really a beautiful person. And Todd was a beekeeper since his early childhood when he was 12 years old, he was keeping bees and that just evolved into a love and connection with the bees and eventually became a commercial operation, which, which led into all sorts of products created with honey. My background, I was, more of a lover of fermentation, naturally fascinated with this idea of fermentation as means of food preservation. You know, so really interested in obviously, beer and wine and fermented beverages, but even with foods, sauerkrauts, kimchi, kombucha and the non-alcoholic space as well.
But being here in Vermont, this is a bit of a beer Mecca that took me into beer brewing and I opened up a home brewing store. And so I was really focused on educating people on how to make beer at home. I was making a tremendous amount of beer at home and really had my sights on commercial brewing. But when I met Todd his connection to the bees and this, this idea of adding value to agriculture and bringing it into the spirits store, in behind the bar and really kind of taking agricultural products and distilling to a canvas that bartenders that can continue on to elevate. And it was really just this clear, clear concept of being this bridge between agriculture and cocktail culture. And I had a tremendous amount to learn. I knew almost nothing about distillation other than what I've read in a couple of books on the slow days at the home brew store, but it was just a fascinating journey to partner with Todd and the opportunity that was right in front of me. And so I joined Todd's team and said let's build a distillery.

Interviewer
What was it about distilling though? I imagine that you could have made a honey beer, a kind of a mead creation. So what was it about the distilling that actually interested you?

Ryan
It's this idea I'd spent so much time with fermentation, so leveraging the power of yeast to create alcohol, but you know, thinking about more like mead and beer and wine, but this idea of another set of variables after that, the sort of invisible science of distillation. Actually boiling it putting it into the vapour state and then re condensing it and then tasting it and smelling it and trying to really truly understand what happened within that column. It was a tremendous challenge and a little bit mind-boggling initially, but it's, it's not that complicated. The reality is that distillation is very simple. Some of the other nuances are very challenging, supply chain and packaging and all of those things, but the reality of distillation is that you're trying to achieve something very simple. And if you approach it with really high quality raw materials coming in and patience, during and after distillation and an absolute commitment to making sure from a sensory perspective that what has come out of the still is, is worthy of going into the bottle. It's achievable.

Interviewer:
What do you think it is about honey, that enables it to pair so well with gin.

Ryan:
Well, I mean, I think if you think about honey I wouldn't think about it as a sugar sweetener. I would think about it more as like a vehicle to deliver botanicals. And, that was something that I really had to come to terms with, but this … when you open up a barrel of raw honey, the first thing you're going to see is just this layer of all the stuff that rises to the top of the honey. And what's within that is, is just evidence of … it's pollen, it's propolis, it’s bees wax. Sometimes it's, things from the hive, parts of bees that didn't make it, and it's just all of this material that comes from the hive that is actually evidence of where the bees are foraging.
And we think of the bees, as … if you think about the flight of the bees they're leaving the hive, they're setting out to collect nectar all day and they're collecting pollen all day as well, just on the fuzzy little fur and, and ultimately the bringing all of this goodness back to the hive, and then they're producing this brilliant raw honey, this, which has this creamy, this viscous texture that's, that’s an undeniably unique sugar source in itself. But the botanicals that travel with that honey truly unlocked flavours that we just don't have the tools in the distillery to find, right? Like, I, I think of the beehive, if we're loading Juniper in the trays of the gin still, the tool is the still to extract that Juniper oil. Whereas I'm thinking the beehive is really more of the tool to extract the flavours of the land

Interviewer:
Every year in late September, you guys run Bee's Knees Week to help save the bees. Can you talk a little bit about why bees are so important?

Ryan:
Yeah. I mean, bees are, are vital to, to our food system. I mean, it’s vital to humanity, but people don't realise one-third of every bite of food that we eat depends on pollinators and bees are the the most popular and important pollinators of all. Meanwhile bees are threatened by so many forces there's just so many things that are just threatening the health of the hive right now. And it seems to just continue, if it's not one thing it's, it's the next and, um usually associated with, with just climate change. So we, we started, an effort to support the bees. We call it Bees Knees Week, but we started Bee’s Knees Week for a few important reasons, but one was just to shine a light on the importance of pollinators, but two is to communicate the threats that they face and make sure that the general consumer, those out there drinking gin, understand the importance of pollinators and how to support them.
But three was really just to stimulate this very important conversation, while enjoying one of the world's greatest cocktails, which is the bees knees. And so the program, we leveraged social media and gin cocktails to encourage people to order a bee's knees, take a photo of that, post it on Instagram and then we plant 10 square feet of pollinator habitat to support the bees. And it's just been a huge success every year, it continues to grow and it gets bigger and bigger. And I think more and more people are educated about the importance of the bees to the point where they're walking into the grocery store saying I'm not drinking a gin cocktail right now, I'm grocery shopping but recognising that, that I still need these bees in my life

Interviewer:
Colony collapse disorder is one of the major threats to bees. Can you explain what that is?

Ryan (08:26):
Yeah. Colony collapse disorder it's … generally when CCD affects a hive you'll find that the fast majority of the bees, which is largely the worker bees just unexpectedly die. And what generally happens is that just leaves the hive with an insufficient nectar to feed the queen and the next generation of hives and ultimately the life of the hive comes crashing down.

Interviewer:
Do they know why?

Ryan):
I don't know. I think there's a lot of theories. I think generally it's being tied back to the use of neonics in agricultural practice. It’s just this use of these terrible pesticides that just impact the flight and the health of the bees.

Interviewer:
So you talked about planting habitats around your distillery. So I assume you ensure that those habitats are completely natural and don't have any sort of pesticides or

Ryan:
Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's, actually the partnership that we've established is with a group called, Bee The Change. And they do amazing work, largely they're planting in and around solar fields, but they're really focused less on commercial beekeeping, but more on wild pollinators. So it goes way beyond the honeybee. You know, this is butterflies and this is hummingbirds and there's just so many more pollinators than we even realise. But when you walked into these fields, the life is just amazing. I mean, you'll see so many insects that you've just never really paid attention to and walking through the fields with Mike, who heads up the organisation, he'll point out to you some of these really important relationships and the hummingbird and the Juul weed, for example and just how evolution has brought these pollinators and these plants together to produce these things that we all just blindly take for granted every day.

Interviewer:
How big are the habitats that you have around your distillery itself?

Ryan:
We're located here in, in Montpelier. We, we have anew distillery here in Montpelier. We're, we're about one mile outside of downtown Montpelier. Granted Montpelier is a very small town, but it is the state Capitol. Across Berry street, is Sabin’s Pasture, which is about a hundred acres of undeveloped land. And it's, it's a pretty rare thing to have in a downtown capital. So there's just a lot of life around us. And then on the other side of the distilleries, the Winooski River, which is actually a river, I grew up in, in a couple of towns East of here. So it's a really special piece of water for me.

Interviewer:
You mentioned that you did move recently. Can you tell us a little bit about the new distillery?

Ryan:
Yeah. So the distillery is located … we actually got to build a road and named the road. So it's located here on Gin Lane in Montpelier, but it's a 27,000 square foot distillery. We built this distillery with a real focus on sustainability and really ensuring that we can minimise our footprint and that's work that continues on, we still have a lot of work to do on that topic, but we’re equipped with an 84 kilowatt solar array on the roof, and we have a rock water recirculation system that that's powered by electricity, but that electricity is offset by that solar array. We have, we have waste separation here onsite to make sure that our waste stillage can make its way to a bio-digester for energy production.
We've really designed this whole facility as efficiently and in as clean a way as possible to produce our spirits, while telling our story. You know, when you walk into the gin lane distillery you're going to see barrels of raw honey, you're going to see silos of grain. It's really going to feel a lot like an agricultural experience because that's what we're here to do. You know, we're really the next step. We like to think of ourselves as an opportunity for farms, but more so, the bridge to cocktail culture. So you'll see the silo full of grain. You'll see the distillery, you can see our team producing spirits and then you'll land at a cocktail bar. And here on site, we have a full kind of world-class team of bartenders that are making amazing cocktails and really trying to elevate the experience while educating people What is it about a gin cocktail that's so special. How can I make this at home? And how is this really related to agriculture? Anyway those are important questions and conversations that we’re having, I like to think you can have a fancy drink with mud boots on, it's a safe space here.

Interviewer:
Now you mentioned barrels of honey, how much honey is actually in each bottle of by Hill.

Ryan:
So theBarr Hill vodka here, we also make a vodka. We don't make as much fact as we do Jane, of course, but our vodka is made from fermented raw honey, and it takes about four pounds of honey to produce one bottle of vodka. And that's because it's 100% of that product is made from raw honey. In the case of our gins, we’re working really hard to preserve the raw aspects of that. The honey is being added after distillation. And we're using just enough of that honey, to bring a balance to that big, bold, burst of Juniper our inside of our basket and in our gin still, we're only using Juniper. So it's where we're extracting a tremendous amount of Juniper oil, because we really want to bring people right straight to gin. You know, this Barr Hill is a big flavour, and that was very much intentional. It's the body of the honey and the balance between the honey and the sort of resonance Juniper that allow the botanical nuances to kind of shine through.

Interviewer:
So does that mean other than Juniper, there are no other botanicals

Ryan:
That's correct. Yeah. It's, it's just the countless botanicals that live within the honey

Interviewer:
Explain to us exactly how raw honey post-distillation actually works, because I mean, honey is quite sort of thick and viscous.

Ryan (14:53):
Yeah, for sure. You know, it's really challenging to be honest and, and it's not necessarily challenging, but inconsistent. Obviously this is real ingredients coming from real beehives and there are simple buttons that we could press, but we choose not to. We could heat the honey. We could filter the honey. There's a variety of things that we can do before it comes into our process, but that would sacrifice the flavour. So when we're working with raw honey, we're opening up a 650 pound drum. And it's just this really thick, viscous, waxy honey, which, provides this incredible flavour. It’s what's within it, the pollen, propolis, bees wax. I mean, there's just so much, and all of that obviously we have a process by which we sort of choose which barrel goes to gin and which barrel goes to vodka and that’s served us pretty well to alleviate some of these challenges, but you're never gonna get around the fact that it's fresh, raw honey from the hive.
We do go through a filtration process before we bottle. And that's where a lot of challenges can come in with raw honey, as well as every other step of the way. But at the end of the day, it's just so worth it. You know, the flavour that's coming through all of these steps of the process if we were to put that filter earlier on or to apply heat, it, it would just come through like any other sort of sugar source. Instead, we've got this full round flavour that is just crucial to the product,

Interviewer:
But at the beginning of the distillation process, you do actually use a direct fire copper still, do you not?

Ryan:
Well, we used to, we started on a 15 gallon direct fire still. We used to run the still once per week and then eventually it was every day. And then eventually it was three times per day. I mean, it was a very small still, and by nature of distillation and produced a small amount of gin flowing out of the parrot. So I'd be running that still. And Todd would actually be driving what we call mom's red car. It was his mom's, um, mercury station wagon. And we would just load that red car to the gills full of gin and Todd would drive it out to market and he'd call me on the way back and say, I hope the stills on, cause you know, it's, the gin has gone and we need some more. And you know, eventually we had to scale that up today, we're running steam jacketed, stainless steel stills. We've got three of them they're, they're all onsite. We run all three of them every single day. And we're, we're blending the gin from all three stills together. So we've, we've got more capacity here now today, but yeah, I, I still kind of miss the days of the 15 gallon still I could, I could actually pick the thing up and scrub it clean, which, uh, can't do that anymore.

Interviewer (17:42):
The brand has won a number of awards. What do you think it is that makes your honey gins so special?

Ryan:
I think the work is the bees. Like I said, the beehive is really a tool to extract flavour that we otherwise just couldn't access. And I, I think we've got a team of people here in Vermont that are so committed to it that we continue to really make ourselves proud, but it's, it's a team-wide effort of ultimately just celebrating the great work of the bees.

Interviewer:
And how many beehives do you have?

Ryan:
We worked with, with a few family farms and Todd is still beekeeping as well, but you know, on, on a pretty small scale up in Greensboro, but we work with a variety of family farms that have all worked with Todd and the distillery for a very long time. And that helps us manage supply chain to make sure that we've got the right honey, the right amount of honey, but more importantly, that the honey is coming from the right region.

Interviewer:
Now, if someone were to buy a bottle, how would you want them to first experience it?

Ryan:
Yeah, I'm probably not your normal gin consumer, but I really think gin should be first poured in the glass and you just need to experience the aroma of the gin. I use my nose in the distillery more so than I taste. That's just sort of an important part of how I really classify things and evaluate them. But I think everything deserves really spending some time on the nose, but I also think sipping gin on its own let gin be gin. And like I said before, gin is, it's such a canvas for the next phase of art that's going to happen behind the bar. So I, I look at gin, it's really evaluating sort of what is that starting point to really understand what the bartender is going to do or, or what the bartender has done with that canvas.

Interviewer:
Now, you mentioned earlier that honey, isn't just a source of sugar within the gin. Does that mean that when someone tastes it, they're getting a lot of the florals that the bees derived their pollen from?

Ryan:
Yeah, absolutely. You know, the … again, I'm a beer brewer by background. So naturally I'm just really focused on this concept of balance and, and striving for big, bold flavours. And one of the things that honey allows us to do is to bring a strong botanical punch of Juniper without being overbearing. So when you taste Barr Hill, you're going to get a lot of gin flavour within that gin, but there's no one piece that's going to throw you out of balance. It's not going to be too dry. You know, even though there's probably more Juniper and Barr Hill than any of the gin on the planet, it's balanced by this, this big, bold and subtly sweet honey. And when those two ingredients kind of balance each other out what, what remains is that floral bursts that you're going to get from, from the work of the bees

Interviewer:
There are a variety of different ways that gin can be presented? What is the, do you think about floral gins that make them so tempting to people?

Ryan:
You know, I don't know. I mean, I think folks are ready for something that's just not one dimensional. You know, I think the gin category has many more layers to it that we're just starting to explore. And I think this concept of, sort of exploring the, sort of the floral depths of where we live is exciting because it ties you back to a place and I think when you open up a bottle of Barr Hill and you pour a glass of it, hopefully that brings you to this place called Vermont or the Northeast. For me all of our products really speak to the area that surrounds the distillery and that's kind of within our team's DNA we're not really capable of making something that doesn't really feel like it came out of Vermont because that’s the way we live and drink.

Interviewer:
So in a way, what you're saying is that the bees bring a certain amount of terroir to the gin.

Ryan):
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, that's there, they're out there basically scraping the earth of, all the botanical nuances that live here.

Interviewer:
Now, if a honey, floral flavour is predominant, what are the flavours do you think work well with that?

Ryan:
I mean, our gin loves citrus, I thinkspecifically, I really love playing with lemon with our gin, but I think just bringing some brightness into that resonance kind of drying Juniper and velvety texture of the honey, it's just, it really works very well. I mean, a bee's knees cocktail with Barr Hill is hard to beat.

Interviewer:
Now, obviously a Bee’s Knees is the cocktail that you would make with Barr Hill, but if someone wanted to go beyond that, what other cocktails, gin cocktails would you recommend work particularly well?

Ryan:
Yeah, there's so many, I mean, it makes a great Gimlet. I personally really enjoy a Last Word. You know, it's a great classic cocktail that I actually that's, that's one of my favourites to drink out in market. In a new city, go find, go find a bartender, who wants to make the last word for me. Also, my go-to at home as a gin and tonic especially if you've got some good tonic syrup make a, make a good real Cinchona extracted a gin and tonic and that's a real delight.

Interviewer:
Well, have there been any cocktails that bartenders have made with the gin that you didn't expect?

Ryan :
Yeah. I mean, every day, this is sort of the exciting part of the job. You know, I, I think people don't realise that cocktail culture was, was built on gin. You know, gin was just front and centre before prohibition, during prohibition, after prohibition. And two-thirds of every cocktail menu was gin. And it wasn't until the fifties and the sixties with great marketing that vodka replaced gin and that's arguably arguably, okay, but it's only great marketing that could have folks thinking that they love something flavourless, odourless, and neutral. And so suddenly what happened was vodka replaced gin in cocktail culture and then cocktail culture died. And everybody just migrated to beer and wine. And you know, now all these years later, we're all kind of looking back at cocktail culture and gin's coming back to life and there's just so many just brilliant classic cocktails that are going to live on forever. And I just think the world is suddenly appreciating a truly balanced cocktail and the foundations of making a great cocktail. And that's just opening up so many forgotten cocktails that are as good as it gets. And, um I I've been having a lot of fun, just replacing whiskey and whiskey cocktails with gin or even barrel aged gin likeMartinez for example, is a great cocktail to sip on.

Interviewer:
Now, speaking of barrel-aged gin, you guys have brought out a Tom Cat Gin, which is an older aged expression. Do you want to talk to us a little bit about that?

Ryan:
Yeah. Tomcat it's a barrel aged gin, so it's the same distillate that we're working with in the distillery. You know, we're running the same process or the same still, but then we're sending it into the barrel room. We're putting it into a brand new American Oak barrel. And I'll tell you how that came about. The 15 gallons still that I mentioned to you earlier, when, when we decided to scale up into the 300 gallon still, that took us about a year and a half to get the flavour right. And it was quite a challenging project, but we had an absolute commitment that we weren't going to go to market without really making sure, I mean, if I could detect it in a blind taste test, then I knew it wasn't gonna go to market and we were making some really good gin, it, it just wasn't quite where we wanted it to go.
And at the same time we had this, this still that I wanted to be making whiskey at the time and we didn't have enough money to fix the whiskey still. And I was having some condenser issues with it. So the whiskey still was shut down and I had just bought a bunch of brand new American Oak barrels. And so I guess it was really means of procrastination. I just couldn't bear to send any more gin down the drain. And, but at the same time I couldn't send it to market. So we just threw it in the barrel. And a couple of months later, we opened up the barrels and there was this the brand new American Oak brought this, like kinda hard dense sort of Kentucky-like flavour. But when it met that Juniper in the raw honey, it really just softened everything.
And it gave it this sort of like coniferous aroma. You know, I grew up here in Vermont and my parents had a plot of land with a bunch of Cedar trees in the back. And it was like reminiscent of building forts in my backyard when I was a kid. And it was truly this flavour of that that was really special. And I hadn't really, it was more of an aroma that I really hadn't experienced. And we said, Hey, there's something to this. So we actually, at that point, we named it, Tom cat, not thinking that that would be the name in market, but just, that's what it tasted like and smelled like and felt like. And, uh, so it was sort of the nickname for the barrels of Tom Cat up in the, up in the loft, eventually the name stock, and we took it to market.

Interviewer:
And has that been as successful as your original gin?

Ryan:
We don't make as much. We struggle to keep up, but it's, it's just got a tremendous following. I mean,I've had a lot of fun with my beer background, a lot of my old home brewing buddies it seems like a lot of my, my, my beer friends are really, taking a liking to Tom cat, but it's also done really well in, in in the whiskey world. You know, it's kind of like in the, in the hot summertime when it's just too odd for bourbon, Tomcats, a really nice play. And then similarly in the winter it makes a great winter gin cocktail.

Interviewer:
Now the UK has been going through a gin Renaissance for a number of years. Do you think that gin has had the same sort of impact in the US

Ryan:
I mean, not to the point that the UK has had, I mean Americans are still drinking way too much vodka, and I think of like vodkas, like skim milk and I just can't quite figure out why people are still drinking it. I mean, I enjoy making vodka, but when we make vodka, we're distilling twice and only twice This idea of distilled 40 times for a better flavour that just doesn't check out, that's still 40 times to remove the flavour that you didn't like from the starting point. You know, we started with, with pure raw honey we're going to distill as little as we possibly can. We've got to get to 190 proof to call it vodka, but we want to hold on to that essence - everything that came from the land and from the beehive, we're trying to make sure that travels through the column and lands in the vodka. And that's easier said than done. It requires us to run incredibly slowly and two passes and only two, but we're really proud of the vodka we make. But at the end of the day, Jen is where the excitement is. You know, there's just too much consumption of vodka. And I think folks need to look past the marketing and really think about the flavour that they're consuming. And I think when we do that, when we're honest with ourselves gin is a really exciting place to be.

Interviewer:
Do you think that the US is still progressing towards a gin Renaissance? Or do you think that it will always not be quite as popular as bourbon?

Ryan:
No, I think it's coming. I think it's inevitably coming, I think globally, it's you can't hide from the fact that two-thirds of the cocktail menus during prohibition or gin, and that's where all of, all of the greatest cocktails were invented just before prohibition, during prohibition or after and that's, that’s going to come through. It's just a matter of the right conversations and those conversations are happening. I mean, consumers are so curious behind the bar and bartenders are such great educators these days, the COVID allowing we're going to get back to having some of those great conversations again, and, um great gin cocktails will prevail.

Interviewer:
Do you think that COVID has, since everyone was making cocktails and drinks at home has actually increased consumers, curiosity and things like gin will, once everything is open, benefit from the fact that the curiosity will bring things forward by leaps and bounds.

Ryan:
Absolutely. This moment feels a lot, like back in my early home brewing days. We were just a bunch of yeast geeks and like, it was not cool at all. We were not cool at all. And, and we're making a bunch of beer and we're swapping recipes. And, and then eventually the bartender started to ask questions and, and get curious. And then consumers got curious. And before we knew it, there was this craft beer Renaissance, and everybody wanted to know every hop variety when the hops were added yeast strains. I mean, all of the details needed to be known, or they were detected while they were drinking it. I mean, the conversations got really vibrant and I think what's happening right now with everybody walks at home. We're all making great cocktails at home or we're perfecting it, or we're carrying a little bit more. And I think when we're all out to go back to the cocktail bar, the conversation between both sides of the bar is going to be that much elevated. And I think it's just going to be that much more contagious. And, uh I, I do think this is setting us up for a really good moment. You know, I think the, the next phase of the roaring twenties is upon us.

Interviewer:
Now, you guys have been going since 2011, what changes have you seen in the industry? And particularly in gin since that time,

Ryan:
It's been huge. I mean in 2011 and 12, it was a bottle of gin at 35 or 40 US dollars was just an insanely high price tag. And it was really hard to get distribution. And we really had to convince people that, that gin could even sell at that price point. And at the same time our raw materials are so expensive there's no way we could sell it for anything less than that over the course of just three or four years, suddenly there's just so many more gins out in market and now even more so it just continues every day. There's more and more gins, but it's great. I mean, I love the variety that's out there. You know, the, the, I don't want to say the more the merrier, but ultimately we're all trying to drive toward the same kind of cultural movement, which is drinking higher quality beverage rather than higher quantity beverage. And I think, I think more great, innovative distillers is a wonderful addition to the community.

Interviewer:
So kind of a, um, a high tide rises, all ships kind of thing.

Ryan:
Yeah, absolutely. As long as folks are bringing great products out to market, it's an exciting place to be.

Interviewer:
What do you want people to take away from their experience of drinking bar Hill gin?

Ryan:
Well I think this, this team, in this place in Vermont gin just pairs well with great conversation. And that’s kind of how we live here. And we are our team we, we live with this ethos of asking our, our, ourselves this question of what makes the gin tastes better. And that's beyond sort of the literal sense of, of what specifically makes the gin tastes better. Of course every step inside of the distillery makes a difference, but every step outside of the distillery makes a difference as well. You know, so how we partner with farmers, how we, how we take care of the land, how we support and empower our team, how we partner with our community all of these things kind of create a world where gin just tastes a little bit better. And I think if folks can, can challenge themselves to look, look through the marketing on the shelf look through the spirits shop and really try to find something that pairs well with the world that you want to live in. I think that's the conversation that you should be driving right now. And I'm hoping that bar Hill drives that conversation.

Interviewer:
Well, thank you, Ryan, for joining us. Obviously, if people want more information on by Hill, they can go to your website, which is actually Caledonia spirits.com or they can connect with the brand on your social.

Ryan:
Yep. If you can actually go to barnhill.com as well, and then there's two RS in both. Yep. And our Instagram is, uh, at, uh, bar Hill chin.

Interviewer:
Excellent. All right. Well, thank you again for your time.

Ryan:
Thank you. Pleasure to be here.