Interviewer:
Aside from the alcohol itself, purchasing good quality barware is one of the most important gifts that you can give to your home bar. Whilst good tools won't necessarily make you a star bartender, they will make creating perfect drinks just that much easier. We talk to Dre Walters from barware retailer, barGEEK, about what makes good tools, what you should look for and how you should buy them.
Thanks for joining us, Dre.

Dre Walters:
Hey, no worries at all. Thanks to you so much for having me.

Interviewer:
Now, what made you think of getting into providing bar tools?

Dre Walters:
Well, it's not only myself in the business. It's myself and my lovely wife, and then a good mate of mine, David Rozario. We came up with the idea, we've been in the bar industry, whether it be working behind the bar or consulting, designing, now I own a bar myself, but we've been in the industry forever. Pretty much, as soon as we left school, I think all of us pretty much got into the bar industry. So for us, it was more just, we saw a hole in the market in Australia, and there wasn't really anywhere that you could get good quality bar equipment. You can make cocktails with anything. You can get a chopstick and you can stir with it. You can do anything if you really want to. And what we wanted to do was provide some really nice, good quality bar equipment. So you could either make it at home or in bars itself in Australia.
So when we started, there wasn't really a market for the high-end barware that we provided. One of our things was to grow that market, and make the market is ideally what we wanted to do. And when we started off, we started looking at the Japanese, looking at the English bar scenes and looking at the American bar scenes. And they were probably a little bit ahead of us at that point in time. I'd like to say that we've been brought up to that sort of standard now. And I think you could probably say that with the likes of your Maybe Sammy's winning best new cocktail bar and a number of other bars around Australia just being recognised in whether it be the top 50 bars or whatever it is around the world that you get recognised. But we're getting there. We're getting to be known.
So when we started, we just saw a hole in the market. To get any of the good bar equipment that was made well, that was sturdy that wasn't going to break, it just wasn't there. The stuff that you had available was non-existent. And if you had to get it here, you'd be paying a super premium price to get it. So there was only a few places that had it. And that's where we started. We said, "Look, why don't we just bring it all here and start trying to grow that market and make that market a thing?" Because people are passionate about it. People really love doing this stuff, but sometimes it's just not feasible if it's an unrealistic cost to buy it for a bar because at the end of the day, they're a business. So it first starts with that.
And then, once the cocktail enthusiast gets involved and they see this is what we use. Or this is a good quality, whether it's a barspoon or a shaker or a strainer, you don't want to have it breaking, you don't want to have it bending, you don't want to have it broken. And that's what we saw. And we saw that hole in the market and we really wanted to nail it. And over the past eight, nine years, we've really done that. What we can see, we've done it. So we're still here. We're still alive. We're still going, so that's good.

Interviewer:
Most of the tools that you sell, are they for the trade, so for other bartenders, or are all of the sales made to consumers?

Dre Walters:
Well, it's a hard one to say, because the bartenders, like chefs, I suppose, and this is where we saw the market going is, at home chefs, they want to buy the same thing that they see commercial people using. So you've got people at home using sou vides to cook eggs when chefs were using sou vides to cook eggs. People see bartenders or managers, owners, or whatever, the equipment that they use in their bar, they want to use that equipment at home because it's what they see is the standard of making a good drink. And I think, for us at this moment in time, we can't really tell. We've got a fair idea, but when people order, we're an online store, so people order purely in their names and sometimes not necessarily in their bars, we don't really know.
I mean, obviously if someone's ordering 15 shakers, you're probably going to assume that's not for home. So you can make that assumption right there. But when people order a cocktail kit or maybe two cocktail kits, you don't know. They might want two cocktail kits at home because they want to make cocktails for a lot of their friends. And if you've got one shaker and one barspoon and one mixing glass, it's going to take a lot longer to get drinks out for the party that you have at home, or the multiple guests that you have around a dinner party. But that's the one thing that I do like is that people understand the world a little bit more, which is good because it's like the chefs. I think it goes hand in hand, everyone's learning how to cook at home and learning how to cook better meals. It's not just meat and three veg. It could be something else that they're doing for dinner.
Same with drinks at home. They're not just having a beer and a wine these days. They might do a spirit mixer, or they might start off with a cocktail or they might be growing mint in their backyard. And these are the stories that we hear. Like, "I grow mint in my backyard because I want to make Mojitos at home. So I need a barspoon. I need this, this." Someone else, they might be growing something else at home to make cocktails with. And those are the things that I think that people are getting into these days because they want to make things themselves. They want to grow it. And there's that sense of ownership. And that sense of pride in taking an ingredient that you've got yourself and then putting it together whether it be into a dinner or whether it be into a drink as well. And so I'd say that's a growing market and something that we hear more stories about as well.

Interviewer:
Now, did you find that people during the lockdown were splurging a little bit more on barware because they were stuck at home?

Dre Walters:
Yeah, a hundred percent. We've always angled everything towards the bars because that's where we're probably going to be able to sell a lot more. Selling 15 shakers as opposed to one shaker is obviously better for business and starting off in an industry that there was no real market for it. That's where we saw, that's how we're going to have longevity. If we can continue to sell to bars, which probably go through a shaker probably once every six months, as opposed to at home, it's once every six years. You're not really going through that many cocktails at home. We did see, COVID for everyone was a wild time. I knew that we looked at each other and went, "Look, this could be the end of us." But I think it was probably about a month, everyone had caught onto what was happening. They were like, "All right, so we work from home, we can't go out, we can't do this. You might as well start making cocktails at home." And whatnot.
I know bars themselves were putting videos out. The bar that I own, Old Mate's Place, we put a few videos out of what to do and how to do some stuff. But there's so much stuff out there that you can learn. And especially for the at-home bartender. Everyone's got to start somewhere. My first cocktail that I made was probably hideous as well. So everyone's got to learn somewhere and you watch videos, you read books, you do all that kind of stuff. And I think that's what people were doing. They were like, "Well, we can't go to my favourite bar, but I know I like this drink and I like that drink. I might just try and make them at home."
So we did see a lot of individual kits go out. So it was quite nice to see that we closed down the warehouse and we said, "Look, let's just see how this goes for a while." And then, all of a sudden, we could open it back up and have one person in there shipping orders out to people, which is great. And we did notice that, instead of those big orders of 15 cocktail shakers or whatnot, it was the kits going to homes or two kits or two different kits. We do a shaken kit and we do a stirred kit. So you saw one of each going out where someone might like a Martini, but they also might like a Whiskey Sour or something.
So with assumptions, that's what we thought was happening. And you can only ever assume without ever being there and seeing what people are making at home. But we get a lot of people coming back to us and saying, "Oh, look, I've got one of your shakers at home. I really love it. I'd love this." And I think that stems from our concentration on the bar world of making sure that the equipment is good quality and it's there to last because you don't want to buy something, then have to buy it again because something broke or it bent or whatnot. And those are a few of the problems that we saw in the bar equipment available in bars.
So that was our main aim, was to manufacture, produce and import bar equipment that was going to be good quality, and that people not only in a bar, but at home, you buy it once you want to have something nice. And if it's on display, you don't want it to look crummy. It's like a watch really. You can buy a watch and that's cool. But some people really value that really good looking watch to go with a certain jacket or whatnot. That's kind of the same with your home. Everyone's got a personal taste. So with colours, it might be stainless steel or gold or a copper finish or a vintage finish to it. Everyone's got a personal preference with it and there's no right and wrong with what you put in your home as well. It's your personal taste. And that's the one thing that we understand is that everyone's going to be different and you're allowed to be different. You're allowed to have whatever you want in your home because it's your home.

Interviewer:
Now, you mentioned manufacturing overseas. So I'm assuming you guys design your own pieces.

Dre Walters:
Well, the BG range is something that we did for Australia and New Zealand. And it works because we understand the Australia and New Zealand markets. And instead of getting something in ounces that doesn't really... You can use it and it works. But when everyone's used to the standard measures of 30 or 60 mls or a half, if it's 15 mls, then it makes sense to create stuff that is for our market. That's where we are. We're based in Australia. So it made sense for us to manufacture and produce things for the Australian market. So it's something that we've always loved doing. And that was the main goal from day dot was to produce a range of bar equipment that was for Australia and was done by us.

Interviewer:
And what would you say would be the percentage of your own designs on the site to third party ware?

Dre Walters:
It's a good question. I think at this moment in time, everything that we introduce, that we design ourselves, we do it to replace an item that you might be a third party design per se. It's sort of a 50/50 of what we have on the website at the moment.

Interviewer:
What is in fashion in barware at the moment?

Dre Walters:
It's a hard one to say. I think definitely from an Australian perspective, you've got a large emphasis on a three-piece shaker. We've never really had those in bars before. They've been around, but using them in the smaller bars has not really been a thing. I would foresee this being a bigger trend to get out there. You've got that coming from Japan. I would say that would be a trend that's going to pick up at the moment. I wouldn't say it's a trend right now, but if there's anything that's going to move forward, I think that would be it. Australia's always been known for a place where you've got a lot of cocktails happening at a lot of times. Now that we've got these smaller bars coming in, people need to learn how to use the equipment as well.
So it takes time, like any kitchen. I always reference back to chefs because I kind of feel like we're at least 15 years behind them in a similar sort of culture. 15 years ago, you didn't really have these celebrity chefs. I think now we're going to have these. There's always these bartenders that might be a little bit more well-known because of whether it be marketing or advertising or whatnot, I think we're leading in the same way. Hidetsugu Ueno a famous Japanese bartender, bar owner from Bar High Five, he loves a three piece shaker. And he's a classic example of someone that's probably in the limelight a little bit more than say other people. And he loves his little three piece shaker. And I would foresee that trend to be pushed around to other bars, other bartenders. But again, it's all situational because if you've got a bar that fits 300, 400 people, you're not really going to use a three-piece shaker because you've got three elements of it and you've got three pieces to clean. It makes more sense to have a two-piece shaker.
It comes down to practicality there. But I think for the at home bar person, I think that would be a trend that I would foresee. It's coming up. We're seeing a lot more of it being sold. And I also think that a trend is people spending a bit more money on the quality of bar equipment coming out of there. When we first started, we had some stuff that just didn't sell. We loved it. We knew it was good quality. It was a once in a lifetime purchase. If you're going to do it, you have a good effort of breaking that, but the products probably didn't sell as much as what we thought. Now, we're seeing those products sell a little bit more. I'd say people investing in good quality bar equipment like they do a good quality pot or pan. Again, I always reference back to the kitchens and the chefs and whatnot, but chefs buy really good quality stuff because they use it a lot and they only want to buy it once.
Same with cocktail equipment. You should really only buy it once. And it's a decision you make or a decision... In my at-home bar, I've got my stuff and I don't really ever plan to replace it. I'd never use it as much as what I use in my own bar. But as long as it's clean and it's kept dry and tidy and whatnot, it should really last for forever. And that's what the ethos of barGEEK was about to make bar equipment that was going to last, and you don't have to buy heaps and heaps and heaps a week. So that's kind of where we come from.

Interviewer:
Would you ever consider designing pieces with famous bartenders?

Dre Walters:
Yes, we'd love to. It's something we've talked to people before. We've spoken to a few people that I probably shouldn't name names because then I'd probably let go of a few ideas that are personally theirs, and I wouldn't want to do that to them. But we've spoken to some people that have won some very big competitions that are probably known Australia wide. I had a chat to them about some ideas of what they want to put out there. It's just a matter of coming down to some commercial deals with them and making sure that they're looked after, remunerated accordingly. But I think that is in line. I think Erik Lorincz is probably a really good example of that. Birdy barware is a Japanese company that we distribute in Australia and New Zealand and their bar equipment is really, really well-made.
It's polished in a certain way. It's meant to be a once in a lifetime purchase. And he's had a big hand in helping the company Birdy barware design their bar equipment and it's all from... He used to be the head bartender at the Savoy. He's now got his own bar. He's probably the perfect example of what the next thing is, but you've really got to make sure that it is worthwhile for both parties. And you've really got an idea that's unique and beneficial and practical for putting it into a bar or putting into a home bar or whatnot. So I think it's definitely something that we've thought about we'll do in the future. It's definitely something that I think you'll probably see lift up and pick off those few ideas in the next five years or so.

Interviewer:
Now, you've mentioned your own bar, Old Mate's Place in Sydney. How much inspiration has the bar been to what and how you've designed?

Dre Walters:
The bar itself has only been open for about two and a half years and we had a good eight, nine months of COVID restrictions of being closed and then restricted opening. So in terms of what we're designing now, I think it gives us a good place to showcase the bar equipment. We've got certain things where I was referencing that you can stir a drink with a chopstick, not to say that we're going to start selling chopsticks, but a teardrop barspoon is something that I always thought, why don't we stir the drink with a teardrop. There's no right or wrong saying that you should stir the drink with a teardrop or you should stir it with a spoon end. It's a personal preference. I'm not going to say what's right and wrong.
But from a practical sense, that's where we had this double ended teardrop barspoon design. Calling it a barspoon is probably the wrong way to describe it. I've always seen the practical way of doing it is stirring a cocktail. It's an easier way of getting an end of it into a mixing glass and stirring the mixing glass. So for the fact of the matter is that you stir a lot of drinks in a bar, I just thought from, again, we're always pretty practical in the way that we look at things and trying to make the job easier. When you're stirring a Martini or you're stirring an Old Fashioned, it just makes sense to have a double ended teardrop barspoon. So for that reason, we made it just a shaft as well, instead of like a twisted coil.
And so there is a point where left-handed and right-handed bartenders, they do say that you need to twist it the other way. It's all a personal thing. But for that point, we made it just a shaft. So a left or right handed person could use it. I'll reference back to Birdy barware as well. They've got a left-handed barspoon because the coil twists in a different way. It twists the opposite way to what a normal coil would. So it makes it a bit more ergonomic in the hand, I suppose.
I suppose if that's anything, that's how we look at anything that we design is to come up with something that's practical that makes sense. And left and right-handed people, it's like when you work in a bar and you work with a left-handed person, you got to be careful because you're both lifting the bottle with the same hand, depending on where you are. And I've seen it and anyone's who worked in a bar or anyone that's probably visited a bar, they've probably seen two bottles clash between the left and the right-handed bartender. And it's a little bit awkward at the same time. So the same thing, you've got to think of, there's more left-handed people in the world now days. So this just made sense for us to do something like that.
And that was something that we came up with in the early days of Old Mates that we were all like, "Look, why don't we do that?" So in our bar stations at Old Mates, we have a barspoon and we have the double ended teardrop barspoon as well. So, one's meant for stirring Martinis or Old Fashioneds that we stir a mixing glass. The other one's meant to be used as a barspoon when you want to put a little bit of olive brine per se or anything else that you need to do. If you need to measure a barspoon or something into a drink, then now you've got your barspoon or your spoon element there to use accordingly.

Interviewer:
If someone's looking to buy barware for the first time, should they buy pieces individually? Or should they be buying them as part of a cocktail set?

Dre Walters:
Great question. Now, we put together some kits, which you can buy. They're just kits that we suggest they work. We've got a Shaken Essentials Kit, which is everything you need to shake a cocktail. You've got to shake out, you've got a strainer, you've got a fine strainer. That's what you need to shake a cocktail. We've got a Stirred Essentials Kit. So if you want to stir some drinks, just say, if you don't want to making Martinis at home, you just love a Martini. I would just say, if you don't want to make Margaritas at home, you don't want a shaken kit, you can have a stirred kit. If you're someone that's just like, "You know what? I just want to make Martinis at home. It's what I love." Then, the stirred kit's for you. It's all situational because there's no right and wrong, but also our suggestions are our suggestions. They're not the gospel.
Everything's sold individually because you can look at that and go, "Look, what do I need to make a Martini?" Obviously, you might have your glassware at home, which is fine, but you need a mixing glass. You need a barspoon, you need a strainer. All those are available in different ways or different designs on the website. And if you like one particular strainer better than the other or if you like one particular mixing glass better than the other, again, it's a personal thing. And everyone's going to like something differently. So it's up to you. I encourage people to do what they like, because as I said, I always say, there's no right and wrong. If you like that barspoon or if you like that mixing glass, then that's your choice.
I think that it's a perfect [inaudible 00:20:56] that likes different things. And that's why there is several different mixing glasses, several different barspoons, different colours as well. So it is whatever you like, and you've got to put it in your home and it's got to match your home as well. If it doesn't match your home, then you've got to live there. Not me. So it's totally up to the person and the individual. But I always encourage people to choose what they want to choose. The kit might work for you. There's different kits. There's different designs of kits. We've done that to make it easy. Then, they're more like if you want to buy... I always say that it's good for a present, like if you want to buy someone a Christmas present, everything's there. It's done for you. It's kitted up. It's ready to go.
But if it's your individual house, you should probably choose what you want for your house. Because like I said, the stuff we have, it's meant to be a once off purchase. It'd be much better from a business sense to say that you need to buy a new one every however many years. But realistically, the stuff we have, it should last a lifetime to tell you the truth.

Interviewer:
Out of all the stuff that you stock, what would you say would be your favourite bar tool?

Dre Walters:
My favourite bar tool is something I always wanted to do and something I designed myself, is probably the pineapple jigger. The pineapple is a sign of hospitality. It always stems back to, I'm a big pineapple fan in general. I know this sounds real weird, but pineapples is a symbol of hospitality, a symbol of, I suppose, a little bit of wealth in a way. And not that I want to concentrate on that. I want to concentrate more on the hospitality aspect of it. If you had a pineapple in your fruit bowl, it was on display because you wanted to show it off and you wanted to share it with everyone. You wanted to cut that pineapple. You wanted to share the pineapple with everyone because it was a rare fruit back in the day.
Pineapple, these days, bartenders love them. They're versatile. They're a great flavour. They're great to work with. We made a pineapple jigger that sits there and looks beautiful, whether it be sitting either way. And it's basically a jigger that just sits there and while it's on one end, it looks like a pineapple. On the other end, it looks like a pineapple standing on its head with standing on its fronds, I suppose. But that was a piece of bar equipment that I was pretty happy to finally get manufactured, just because it was a little bit harder than what we thought. There was a bit of other stuff that was quite easy to do. It's a shape and you get it in there. But actually getting the design and the way that you put it together was something we were probably a little bit more proud of than say a few other items, just because of the difficulty, I suppose.
But it is something that I like. It is beautiful. It's also something that it goes really well in a liquor cabinet at home. I think it looks really good sitting next to a bottle of Rum or a bottle of Whiskey or whatever.

Interviewer:
You guys have been doing this for a fair while. What changes have you seen?

Dre Walters:
Changes, I think there's probably been a couple of competitors that have come and gone. We're lucky enough that we just concentrate on service and making sure that we can get everything to people as fast as possible. The changes, realistically, just go in trends. And I think the biggest change would be the education of the general punter and the education of the bartender as well. When we started, as I said, there wasn't a market. There wasn't a market for what we did. It was, everyone just bought whatever from wherever you could get it. As I say, you could make any cocktail with anything you want, but there's a reason why we buy nicer plates, there's a reason why we buy nicer pots and pans, is because we want our house to look nicer.
We understand we probably fit in a bit of that luxury category or that's something that's probably a little bit special. And we've seen that market grow a little bit where you see competitors in stores replicating bar equipment. We pride ourselves on having really good quality of bar equipment. And I like seeing bars concentrating on the quality of bar equipment they use to make drinks. It makes it easier to make them. And also it also adds to the experience. If you have a dinner party at home, it adds to the experience as well. Like you whip out your good cutlery when you've got friends around. I know my grandma always did it. She had her set of really nice cutlery that we had our Sunday roast with. And then we had just our normal everyday cutlery that we had if we went around there on a Thursday night for dinner or something like that.
And that's something that I see happening in the at home bar industry and the bars themselves, these days as well, they spend a bit more money making sure that the experience for the consumer is a lot better. And that comes from everything. That comes from the bar equipment that you use, to the lighting, to the seat that you sit on, to everything. That's something I see. We're stepping it up a little bit, which is really good.

Interviewer:
Now, if people are buying for home for the first time, is there anything they should particularly be looking out for when they're buying jiggers or shakers or muddlers or mixing glasses or strainers or anything like that?

Dre Walters:
In terms of what they're looking out for, if you're unsure, you can always just go to a bar and ask. And bartenders like that, [inaudible 00:26:05] people, ask them. They usually know. If they're using good equipment, if I want to buy some stuff, I usually go to a chef and, "What do you have at home?" Like their knives they have at home. And they'll give you an honest opinion. If someone recommends someone else than barGEEK, that's totally fine. There are other people out there doing some good stuff as well. As long as we can get the industry up there and have a standard of let's have some good quality stuff out there. You can probably go to Kmart these days and buy a cocktail shaker. But whether it's going to be with you in six years is another thing.
So for me, I always concentrate on quality. A little bit younger, I used to buy the cheapest pot and pan and go cook with it and it got ruined and then I have to buy another one. It's annoying these days. Look for some good quality stuff. If you're unsure, you can always ask questions and bartenders are really good at giving an honest opinion as well. So, I'd just say, look for some good quality stuff. I could get real nerdy and go into the quality of steel that you should be finding. But no one's really going to put that on the outside of a packet and nor is anyone really going to know the difference as well. So just look for good quality stuff. I think it goes like anything else. The good quality stuff, you only buy it once. It might cost you $10 more or whatever it is, but I see the value in that myself. I'd rather buy something once than twice, if you know what I mean.

Interviewer:
Now, you've spoken a lot about designing for the Australasian market. If people are listening to this who are overseas, will you actually...

Dre Walters:
Yeah, we ship worldwide. We've got customers in LA, in Sweden, in the UK, everywhere. You name it, we've probably sent something somewhere. And it's not only for that market. If I talk about a jigger and I'm talking about a Maruchi, it's designed for the Australian market, but it still has a 50 ml increment there, which is totally suitable for the UK market. That's not to say that we're excluding them, but Australia is a bit unique in what we do and the standards that we have. So naturally being here with design stuff that fits for us. But if there's anything anyone wants around the world, we've definitely shipped to anywhere. The UAE. Anywhere. The Pacific Islands or Hawaii, you name it, we've probably shipped there.
And it's really interesting to see when those international orders come in. I get a bit of a kick out of it, knowing that we're sending a whole lot of bar equipment over to Sweden or something like that because that's quite a distance away for us. So it's quite interesting.

Interviewer:
Now, of course, if people want to know more about barGEEK, they can of course go to your website, which is bargeek.com.au or connect with the brand on your socials.

Dre Walters:
Yeah. Connect with the brand on the socials. The best thing, if you've got any questions and you're unsure of how to use a piece of equipment, this is a thing is like, sometimes people don't do it and people don't get into cocktails it's because they don't ask the questions or it might seem too hard. Look, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed and if I can do it, I reckon anyone can do it. But tools that bargeek.com.au. Just shoot through a silly question. Anything you got. No question is too silly, but you only live life once. Right? And you got to have a laugh every now and then. And I think one of the best questions we ever got asked, which, is funny for me, but I'd encourage anyone to ask, but we had someone inquire via the website and they asked, we sent them a tin on tin shaker, which is a two-piece shaker, one tin fits into the other tin is the easiest way to describe it. You've probably seen most bartenders use this in any commercial bar.
And the person just didn't know how to use them. And they sent through a question and then they were like, "Look, I've got the tin on tin shaker, but I think you forgot to send the lids." No question is a stupid question. We can send you through a video of how to put the tins together and how to shake a cocktail from there. But I'd encourage everyone just to ask because not everyone's going to know how to make everything and not everyone's going to know how to use every piece of equipment. If you don't ask, you don't know, is the thing. So feel free to pop through on any social media avenue, whether it Instagram or Facebook, or send us an email, we're more than happy to answer any questions that you have as well. And just no question is a stupid question. If you don't ask, you don't know, correct?

Interviewer:
Exactly. Now, on Instagram, I know you're barGEEK underscore. Is that the same on Facebook?

Dre Walters:
No, Facebook, it's just literally barGEEK. Look it up. You'll find us there. But again, you can just go to the website and you'll have links from there as well, bargeek.com.au.

Interviewer:
Excellent. All right, Dre, thank you so much for your time this afternoon.

Dre Walters:
Okay. No worries at all. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate you taking the time to have a chat with us as well. I hope everyone's learnt a bit, if not, just feel free to send through the questions and we're just here to help.